should workers in essential Services be
refused the right to Strike should
workers in essential Services be refused
the right uh to strike Matthew Hancock
thinking of course of the current
difficulties who brought London to a
halt for the 48 hours in well many of us
were many of us were delayed on the way
down here and you know I support the
Trade union movement and I work with the
Trade union movement for instance on
expanding apprenticeships um and I think
that they are badly served by their
bosses because there was not a majority
of trade unionists who voted for this uh
action the majority of workers on the
tube didn't vote for this action and
they were driven into it by their bosses
and I think that we do need to look at
um that you know the way that those
votes uh take place um and we also need
to think about whether essential
Services uh can be brought to a stand
for instance you know the police can't
strike uh because you wouldn't want a
moment when all of the police in uh in
the country weren't at work so are you
in favor of essential Services being
refused the right to strike well I think
the New York subway I believe they have
no right to strike I I do think that we
need to uh consider it um but I don't
think we should consider mean exactly
have a look I think yeah and but I don't
think that we should do it off the you
know in the midst of the uh of of you
know of a strike which has been so
destructive because we is that the right
moment to think no because no because we
need to balance on the one hand the
right to withdraw your labor is an
important right but but just as
important and I would say this week as
it you know more important is the
ability to keep our country going and
the ability for people to be able to get
on with their lives and the strike this
week has shown that despite the fact
that a majority didn't vote for it they
managed to have a big disruptive impact
which means that doctors haven't been
able to get get in to treat their
patients that teachers haven't been able
to get into schools to teach and I think
that this strike was absolutely wrong
and we need to look at whether we need
to change the rules about it do you do
you want the right to strike
refus um personally I think that um
members of of the nond underground who
decide to strike I think that is an
essential service if you look at uh
situations with horrific situation such
as a terrorist attack or 77 you look at
those supervisors number of people in
those stations who helped evacuate
people who were within those tunnels who
are in those moments those crucial
moments where they were then supported
by the emergency emergency services you
can see the focus and the importance of
of that service and you can see the
importance of it to London as a
financial Capital if we the the real
losers at the end of the day are going
to be the millions of londoners who
haven't got to work aren't able to get
to work where the economy then suffers
when we've been growing and um to to be
honest personally I find the fact that
um the fact that rmt officials haven't
really met properly with brce Johnson or
whatever there's a breakdown of
communications they're frankly
ridiculous
okay George George Gallow well this is
what happens when you elect a clown as
the mayor of London and it's not very
funny and the suffering that has uh
occurred over the last 40 hours is not
funny for anybody and it's not funny for
the workers who had to lose
two days pay over it by the way the
workers voted to strike I wouldn't like
anyone to be misled you support trade
unions like the Rope supports the
hanging
man the truth is that Boris Johnson
provoked this strike by issuing a Fiat
to close every ticket office in London
and make hundreds of people redundant
without negotiating it with the people
who are paid to represent the interest
of the staff you know if it's not rocket
science 5 years Boris Johnson has not
met with the leaders of the rmt this is
contempt T contempt for working people
and their organizations and in the final
analysis working people only have their
labor to withdraw they don't have your
money they don't have the money that the
people in the city of London have they
don't have any power except their own
labor power and the right legally
democratically to decide to withdraw it
for a day or uh two only 30% of members
of the rmt voted for this strike you're
assuming the others were all against it
only 30% of people voted for Boris
[Applause]
Johnson and the plan is and the plan is
perfectly reasonable and not to close
every ticket off it and in fact well
covered that it is to close every single
ticket office on the London Underground
you don't even know what your own
mayor's doing it's that's just not true
and it and also it's well covered by
voluntary uh people applying for
voluntary redundancy it's a perfectly
reasonable Plan and there's no good
reasonable argument for bringing London
to a ho all right the woman up there um
well firstly I think it's really unfair
of you to suggest that people are just
striking to prevent people from getting
to work they're striking because they're
angry and if Pol Ians are just going to
say they're only going to consider
helping them in the future then it's no
wonder that they want to strike to begin
with okay and you sir Center there I I
totally support the right of anyone to
take strike action but the London
Underground is one of the most expensive
underground systems in Europe to surely
this is a way of improving efficiency on
the Underground system and hopefully
reducing fears all right let's come back
to the issue of whether it's so
important that there should be no right
to strike in this and other essential
Services David starky what do you I
think generally the rule is that there
should be no right to strike because
what is happening in this this strike
indeed has happened in the London
Underground over the last 15 or 20 years
is a process of pure extortion Bill Crow
is not an ineffective Trade union leader
Bill Crow is a staggeringly bob whatever
he is um uh the the the large fat red
man with the Peno coladas um is an
incredibly effective Trade union leader
they are paid £52,000 haven't forbit how
much are you ear um I I want more than
that for a less honorous less
responsible job come on their jobs could
be replaced by a dummy uh the the the
most of the trains are designed to run
automatically come on these trains are
designed and intended to run
automatically as every subway system in
the world is increasingly doing now what
has happened with London Underground is
that it has been mismanaged by both
Livingston and by the current mayor
Livingston deliberately encouraged the
trade unions Boris has been is a
hopeless administrator Ken Livingston is
a malign genius and London tfl needs
shaking up from top to bottom the reason
fairs are so scandalously expensive is
mismanagement on an unbelievable scare
but is it is it is it a service so
essential that the law that replies to
the police and the military that they're
not allowed to strike if we were any if
we were any other European country it
would be I was actually astonished to
discover that we are the only country in
Europe that does not have a coherent
body of law defining essential services
and defining what you have to do in the
event of a strike it's not about you're
never allowed to strike but it's that if
if if you do go on strike there is a
basic minimum that you are obliged to
maintain and I was absolutely astonished
every country in Europe except us has a
very clear body of law relating to that
and yes it includes public transport in
large cities so what would the effect of
that be in in London it would have meant
that you had to keep a service going on
every single line at at a certain level
it wouldn't have meant that you couldn't
take any industrial action but it would
have meant that people who really had to
get around could and in terms of
withdrawing your labor I mean you know I
have friends who have lost large amounts
of money because their businesses
effectively had no takings over the last
two days so you know this is this is why
these are defined as essal they're
defined as essential because they are
essential to allowing other people to
carry out their normal life essential to
allowing people to get to doctor's
appointments get to school get to work
get to businesses that's what
essentially means Tess may may let's
just Define you a little bit here you
may be the person who challenges for the
mayor meraly of London when you may know
more than I do no I I said you may be
and and I know many people tip you to be
mayor of London were you mayor of London
what will you do about this well first
of all I I would not support withdrawing
the right to strike from public sector
workers in response to Allison's point
you know I uh got the tube the bus
yesterday it was inconvenient long
delays and all the rest of it but it was
possible to get it met your standard of
of of of a basic service but you know I
think that withdrawing the right to
strike assumes that uh public sector
workers undertake industrial action in a
kind of Reckless unthinking way and they
don't and this was a strike just a
second David stop it the this was a
strike that was completely preventable
completely preventable had first of all
Boris Johnson not broken the promise
that he made uh when he was elected he
promised that no ticket stations uh
ticket offices would be closed I
actually think that that there is a case
for um you know getting people out of
ticket offices and out on the platforms
all that could have been negotiated had
we not had the F of Boris Johnson and
Bob Crowe the only way they could talk
to each other was by phoning LBC and
having their discussion mediated by Bob
crow that is not the way to do it
okay
well Boris stood on a very clear
platform of modernizing the tube and you
know why we need to
modernize promis to keep the ticket
officers he he stood on a platform of
modernizing can I read the quote out
just so we get round this point 2010 the
mayor takes this promises to London
extremely seriously every station that
has a ticket office will continue to
have one statement from City
Hall is how many people do you put in
ticket offices and are people better on
the station platforms this is the
proposal on the station platforms
helping people when only only 3% of only
3% of the traveling public used the
ticket off so why did he go out on a
limb only three years ago to say every
station will have a ticket off because
of course there will still be places you
can go in each station you're struggling
here because clear you have
people people there will be people
available right for when people have
this is called the student loans moment
but the crucial thing about um improving
the tube is that then we can keep the
prices on it down and you can't keep the
traveling public moving and moving at a
reasonable cost if you set everything in
stone and say that when when 97% of
people who use the tube don't go through
a ticket office we need to have them and
staffed up because Bob Crow says all
right let's just take one more point
from the person at the back there um I
completely agree with Tessa there
everyone should have the right to strike
why why it depends what their job is
just because they're brave enough to do
that job it doesn't change their right
to
strike saying the come on what about
the should encourage other politicians
to sort out
situations 24 hours it's all over you've
said everybody should have the right to
strike are you saying the police should
have the right to strike what well yeah
and the well
yeah is this how we conduct debate and
the threat of that Strike should make
decisions I don't think it's wise to
insult our audience on the con the
audience occasionally needs
it it's an honestly plate and not
somebody who's freid I'll take one more
point from the now I've heard you and uh
you saying spectacles there yes yeah all
sorry I think the most important thing
in this is actually being lost the
people involved in uh in the underground
in who work for tfl are being completely
forgotten unfortunately you've got two
egos completely dominating this argument
the media is spinning it to be a a a bob
crow versus Boris Johnson now the thing
is if you take away the people's right
to strike what else have they got if the
unions aren't working what protection is
there for the common man in a dispute
that isn't striking
okay have you heard of employ have you
heard of employment law do you know the
huge structure of employment protection
that now exists strikes in the public
sector are mere extortion against you
and me that's all they are which is why
they paid 52,000 a year well some of
them are can I just deal with this
because it's not true some underground
workers earn 5,000 a year the drivers do
nothing 52,000 is a bad month's bonus
for a banker in the city of London give
me a tube driver with hundreds of people
at his back that's a responsible and
important job if the bankers went on
stri if the bankers went on strike we'd
all be better off all right